"Crazy Lying" (Part Two)

This post is also available at my new website Trauma Mama Drama.  If you enjoy reading my blog, remember to update your feeds, emails and bookmarks with the new link, because eventually I will only post updates on the new site's blog.

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In Part One of my blogs on this subject, I shared with you the heartbreaking day when Husband realized the "abnormality" of Middle's lying behavior and how we responded in one of the worst possible ways. Today, I'm going to tell you how to deal with it.

My favorite resource on how to deal with the lying comes from Christine Moers, of course!

I love how she emphasizes the fact that you shouldn't ask them whether or not they did something because it's pointless, and that getting them to admit their lie is usually pointless as well. Middle recently gouged markings on my desk and I knew she had done it. There was no question. Just like when she wrote on the wall, I had all the evidence I needed to accuse her of gouging the desk without worry that maybe it was another kiddo.

I felt like Kevin Spacey in American Beauty... "IT'S JUST! A! DESK!!!!"

But she would NOT admit it, no matter how many times we told her she wouldn't be in trouble, that we didn't care at all about the desk but only that she trust us enough to tell us what happened. It took her four hours to admit it under intense interrogation, and by that time we were so angry that she was already in trouble for lying to us and her admitting the truth didn't mitigate our anger or her consequences.

A few days after the desk gouging incident, Middle lied to me about a marker she'd hidden in her room (she is not allowed markers in her room because she marks up her walls, and we rent an apartment that for some stupid reason used matte-finish paint on the walls... so removing the marker results in the paint coming off which means we have to pay to repaint the room when we move!). I asked her where it was, she said she didn't know, so I said, "If I find it hidden in your room, I will know that you are lying about not hiding the marker. Are you sure you don't want to tell me? You won't get in trouble, but you will if you don't tell me the truth right now."

"I didn't hide it. It's just gone."

Of course I found the marker, hidden carefully and strategically underneath her clothes.  I didn't move the marker, and went back to her to ask, "Are you sure you didn't hide it?"

"I didn't do it!" she yelled, and started crying.

"Middle, I already found it and know you hid it. Won't you tell me the truth, please?"

"Aaaaaaaaahhhh-ahhhh-ahhhhhhhhh!" she wailed. "You don't believe me!"

"I want you to find the marker and then we will talk," I said. I was starting to doubt that she'd hidden it. Middle is very convincing.

But when she came in, she went right to the clothes and pulled it out. And I saw RED. I wanted to punish her and I started yelling at her. "WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST TELL ME WHEN I ASKED YOU!? NOW YOU ARE IN TROUBLE!"

I went out and bought ice cream sandwiches and gave them to Little and Oldest, and then asked her again if she'd hidden the marker. "No," she said.

So I put her ice cream sandwich back in the freezer. "You can have THIS when you decide to tell me the truth!"

The next night after dinner, I doled out ice cream sandwiches again but withheld Middle's. "Are you ready to talk about the marker?"

::silence::

"Okay, no ice cream sandwich for you."

After that night, I started feeling guilty. I was definitely not following the SPACE model for therapeutic parenting by trying to force her to explain herself. I thought really hard about why she was lying, and past incidents in which she felt she had to lie, and realized that she absolutely did not believe us that she would avoid punishment if she'd just tell us the truth. I realized that in her past, she probably faced severe consequences when she finally owned up to a lie, consequences that were the exact same had she kept on with the lie. She was afraid to tell me the truth... And when I asked her what she thought I'd do if she admitted to hiding the marker, she said, "I don't know... Swat me or something."

I decided that since I already knew the truth about the marker that it didn't really matter... what mattered was that she trust me enough to admit a wrongdoing. So we practiced. I made her feel as safe as possible, and asked her to say, "I hid the marker because I wanted to keep it in my room." And when she did, I responded by giving her half an ice cream sandwich, with the promise of a whole one after dinner.

That hasn't stopped the lying. Oh, no. Not by a long shot. But instead of responding with anger and punishment, I've started having her practice telling us the truth. The last lie was over our shower nozzle which she accidentally broke (or on purpose, but that doesn't really matter, does it?). She freaked out when I asked her about it and started lying and crying, but I reassured her and told her it was safe to tell me the truth. I asked her again what she thought would happen if she admitted to breaking it, and she said, "Never let me take a shower again." And we practiced her telling me, "I accidentally broke the shower nozzle." And I said, "That's okay!  And, since you told me what happened, I know how to fix it!  Thank you for being so brave!"

I'm not sure how this will work out in the end, of course, but I'm feeling pretty good about this method I'm trying out. I certainly enjoy working with her like this instead of punishing her or getting so angry... because when I get angry it just scares her more and makes her clamp onto that lie for dear life. It breaks our bonds and depletes her trust in me, and how can I expect her to tell me the truth if she doesn't trust me?

Bottom line: "Crazy lying" originates from the fear she grew up with before I even met her. When I punished her for lying, I only reinforced the paradigms of her trauma (I can't trust anyone, I must protect myself, and my parents will hate me, maybe hit me, if they find out I did something wrong). While addressing a lie is important because of the control issues our kids with traumatic pasts tend to have, it's important to address it in a way that makes them feel safe and reinforces the bonds of attachment you have with them, however tenuous those bonds may be.

Other Resources on "Crazy Lying"
A blog on how one mom reacts to crazy lying
A blog that looks at lying in a different way
A blog reminding us of the motivation for crazy lying
Ask a question that gives them a choice
This blog illustrates some therapeutic conversations about lying

Nonsense Chatter... The Bane of My Existence

This post is also available at my new website Trauma Mama Drama.  If you enjoy reading my blog, remember to update your feeds, emails and bookmarks with the new link, because eventually I will only post updates on the new site's blog.

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Oh, nonsense chatter.  How I loathe thee.

When we first got custody of Little, he was... well... little.  Since he was only three and we knew he'd been through some terrible experiences, we didn't notice that some of his odd behaviors were actually distress signals.  The massive fits he was throwing were almost normal for a three-year-old boy.  The toilet accidents were totally expected.  The fondness for the word "no" wasn't a surprise by any means.  And the constant questions and constant chatter absolutely did not set off any alarm bells in our heads.

Because kids talk.  A lot.  Non-stop, even.  About anything and everything and nothing at all.  I get it.

Early one November morning (about 4:45 am!), Little came into my room after Husband had left for work, as he had done every single morning since he'd come to live with us, and we had the following exchange:

"Where's Daddy?"
"He's at work, bud.  Go back to bed."
"Where's Middle?"
"In your room, sleeping.  Go back to bed, it's too early to be up."
"Where's Oldest?"
"Sleeping in her room.  Go back to bed."
"Where's Daddy?"
"Bud... Climb in bed with me.  We need to go back to sleep."
"When Daddy's coming home?"
"When he's done with work."
"Where's Middle?"
::Silence::
"Where's Middle?  Where's Middle?  Hey, I ask you where's Middle?"

And so on.

It was nothing new.  And my groggy morning brain ignored the "oddness" of this repetitive behavior for months.  However, on this particular morning, I was "with it" enough to realize he'd been asking me the same questions in the same order every day.  For months.  Surely he knows the answers to these questions by now, I thought.

Come ON, Pinky! 

Your time as a lab rat has negatively impacted your recall ability.

My flag started climbing up the flag pole.  This is definitely a sign of... something, I thought.  OCD?  RAD?  ADHD?  Or MAYBE it's something totally normal and I'm being weird.

So, the next morning, when he came in, I changed it up a little.
"Where's Daddy?"
"Where do you think he is?"
"Work.  Where's Middle?"
"Where is she?"
"In her bed in our room.  Where's Oldest?"
"Where is she?"
"In her bed in her room."
"Yes.  So... Why are you asking me these questions you already know the answer to?"
"I don't know."  LONG PAUSE.  "Where's Daddy?"

And even though it was only 4:45 in the morning, I was up now.  And I started paying attention to his questions and conversation throughout the day, and found he was constantly asking questions he already knew the answer to.  Such as when we took the girls to school and drove past some old tornado debris.  He'd ask, "What happened?" and when I stopped answering him and turned it back to him with a, "Gee, what do you think happened?", he would repeat almost word-for-word the explanation his dad had given him months before. "Oh, a tornado came and knocked down some trees and houses and they are still cleaning it up." Or asking me what day it was four times during the 10-minute car ride back home, even after I'd answered that question three times before we left the house and once when the girls had been in the car.

This was something I'd never encountered before... Nothing at all like a typical "Why?" phase all kids go through.  He wasn't asking for information.  He was doing something else entirely, but I had no idea what he was doing.

And then we found out about RAD, and learned about "nonsense questions/nonsense chatter." Theories behind this behavior vary a bit, but the reason this happens with Little (and, to a lesser extent, Middle) seems to be a combination of coping with anxiety ("I'm just checking to make sure everyone is where they are supposed to be and that everything is fine and normal today and nothing is going to throw me off!" or, "If I keep talking and talking then I don't have to THINK or FEEL my FEELINGS!") and control ("If you are distracted with these questions you won't be angry with me because I keep waking you up before 5:00 in the morning!").

We've found ways to deal with this seriously annoying thing that Little does on a daily basis (at the bottom of the video I link to a resource that will help you if you need suggestions!).  But it still happens.  And these are my "favorite" questions he's asked me (and by "favorite" I mean the most ridiculous questions I've heard come out of his mouth when he's having a "rough" day").  I hope that if you read through them the examples illustrate just how this behavior plays out and how it differs from the normal questions kids ask as they develop their little brains.

1) "Why Max (our cat) is black and white? Why Max is white and black?  Why cats are black?  Why cats are white?  Why cats eat trees?  Why trees eat cats?  Why cats cats cats cats?  (The last question is WORD FOR WORD, and I remember because it got me to stop making lunch, get down on his eye level, and ask him if he was okay... Then he started throwing a huge tantrum.  Now, the question in retrospect is actually pretty damn funny... I mean, don't we all wonder from time to time, "Why cats cats cats cats?"  At the time, however, I remember my stomach dropping and getting that familiar, "Oh no, it's about to go down," feeling I get when I sense a meltdown coming on.)

2) "Umm... Middle... Why did, does, do, did, does, do, did, did, does, do, dis...... Ummm... Middle, Why doesdodiddodoesdiddoesdo..." At which point I mentioned he was chattering and asked him to stop.

3) "Why you Oldest's mom?"
"Because I carried her in my tummy and that makes me her mommy. And I take care of you and am married to your dad and that makes me your mom, too.  But you weren't in my tummy so I'm your step-mom, but it's really almost the same thing as a mom."
"Why Oldest is your mom?"
"Why am I her mom?"
"No... Why she's your mom?"
"She's not my mom.  She is my daughter."
"But why her is your mom?"
"I'm her mom, she is not my mom."
"Yeah, but why she's your mom?"
And so on for about a minute until I realized we were in a nonsense chatter loop.

4) Chuck E. Cheese commercials used to trigger a non-sense chatter exchange between Little and Middle.  Here's an example... It's not word-for-word, but the general essence of the conversation is the same and I only wish I was joking!

Little would start, "CHUCK E. CHEESE!  MIDDLE!  YOU BEEN THERE FOR YOUR BIRTHDAY!"
"Yeah!  Long time ago when I was a baby!"
"Yeah! And I was there!"
"Yeah!  Long time ago when I was a baby.  I was three and you were two."
"Yep."
"And now I'm four and you're three."
"And then you'll be five and six and eight and nine!"
"Yeah, and we can go to Chuck E. Cheese for my birthday!"
"Yes! When you are a baby?"
"When I'm a baby we will go to Chuck E. Cheese and I'll be three and you'll be a baby..." And so on and so forth.  Every time the commercial came on.  EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.  Until I snapped one morning and joined in their chatter just as enthusiastically as they were doing (because I knew exactly what they were going to say after the bazillionth time I'd heard it!).  They haven't done it since (woo-hoo!!!!).

This used to go on ALL THE TIME.  In fact, it used to be that when Little was spoke, he was chattering or asking nonsense questions most of the time. And when Husband and I started to call him out on this, THAT is when we started to get the scary, angry fits and the more upsetting "RAD behaviors" out of him.  Because we were taking away one of his mechanisms of control and coping.

Wondering what to do about this?  Watch the video by Christine Moers below.  This video floored me, because she was the FIRST person I ever heard speak of the things I was dealing with.  She gives an example of a nonsense question one of her kiddos asked that is ridiculous, and I remember getting a little shiver, looking at husband, and saying, "SEE!  SHE KNOWS!  WE'RE NOT CRAZY, THIS IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING!"

She is a lifesaver, this woman.  I modified her "prescribe the questions" suggestion and we got great results! Watch the video and I'm sure you will find something you can implement in your household to cut down on the "blah blah blahs."